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Moderated by: Robert

EurAsia : Index Switch TX anncounces "EmuNand" - Missinformation FTW!
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Author TX anncounces "EmuNand" - Missinformation FTW!
Sytron



private

Registered: 2005-11-15
Messages: 3
Status: Offline
 _#36159 posted 2018-09-23 @ 18:15 GMT   
TX Announces SXOS Update 2.0 with "EmuNAND"

TLDR: The EmuNAND your looking for is in another castle...


Original Source:
https://www.maxconsole.com/threads/sx-os-v2-0-announcement.46981/

Today TX launches 2.0 of their SXOS and the big headline reading EmuNAND. Only it's not quite what we have all become accustomed to when the term "EmuNand" is used. Read below:

"One thing to note is that SX OS EmuNAND works a bit differently compared to what some of you might think of as "traditional" EmuNAND where the entire NAND is copied to a separate partition on the MicroSD card. With SX OS EmuNAND your EmuNAND partition lives inside of your regular NAND. The primary reason for this is that occupying 32GB of a MicroSD card is a bit wasteful"

Right off the bat I see Red Flags flying high. Especially after reading:
"SX OS will boot into EmuNAND by default if it finds a valid EmuNAND partition."

A partition on the sysNAND? So allocate 15gb of our sysNAND with a partition for what need? They added NAND dumping/restoring and GPT repair which is great to see more options on. Backups are always important and useful when something inevitably goes wrong.

However I still don't see what purpose this implementation of EmuNAND has, unless it was for:

"Another upside of consolidating your SX OS usage from your original firmware usage is vastly reducing the risk of a network ban...."

Of course but there's still that partition on your sysNAND. Thanks to switchbru we know that NAND size gets sent out with the telemetry.

"You can run SX OS in EmuNAND, of course with our Stealth Mode enabled, and anything that is littered on the EmuNAND's filesystem is not visible to the switch in Original Firmware mode."

Wait, what the fuck? This isn't why people want EmuNAND, at least those of us who know what an EmuNAND is for.

I want my switch to have an unaltered OFW NAND to go online with when I want to do so. That's one of the reasons to have a clean untouched sysNAND backup stored someplace safe. When I wan't to go On-line for whatever reasons I choose, I would just have to restore my clean sysNAND and I'm good to go. OR if we have EmuNAND boot in to our original and clean sysNAND and go from there.

TX's "EmuNAND" isn't this at all, and calling it such lays the ground work for some horrible misinformation and assumptions about what it is. Especially when your average user reads the title and see's the huge post on it and goes TLDR: ONLINE IS SAFE AGAIN! When the reality is, it's not one fucking bit at all.

Call it sandboxing or any new catch phrase term to not put ideas into people's heads. Oh wait I get it that was the hole idea, I see what they did there.

Reading through the cesspool that is the GBATemp thread about this update you have the TX fanboys trying desperately to justify their purchase, and the others like me who are going "what in the fuck! this is going to confuse and get a lot of people banned" which none of us want to see happen.

16 pages in and it's always the same idiots who blindly defend their position, effectively ignoring facts and chanting how great their position is. It's sad to see just how fucking stupid some people are.

I will say TX did add other useful features such as an alternative to backing up your sysNAND, and a GPT repair tool. Those might be of some use, but this "EmuNAND" isn't at least not to the majority of people using their products.

I still find it ironic the store here isn't selling their switch stuff. Can't imagine why...

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Robert





Registered: 2002-06-14
From: Bangkok
Messages: 1432
Status: Offline
 _#36160 posted 2018-09-24 @ 08:51 GMT   
Quote:
On 2018-09-23 @ 18:15 GMT, Sytron wrote:
I still find it ironic the store here isn't selling their switch stuff. Can't imagine why...



The main reason we haven't sold SX Pro or SX OS so far in the Online Shop is because the markup (profit margin) would be roughly 15% with the prices we get, this is too low for a high risk product like this one.

What I mean by "high risk" in this case is twofold:

1) Legal problems with retail sales.
2) Stock is paid in advance for a product which can be made obsolete by free soft hacks at any moment.

I noticed that TX prices have been lowered recently, but that was not the case at launch, and profit margin is still too low for us.

[ This message was edited by Robert on 2018-09-24 @ 08:58 GMT ]
                                      .--.
          ________ ____ __  ________ /    \   _______  ___  _______
     _ __/   - __//    |  |/   ____//  \   \ /___  --|/   |/   __  |__ _
   - - --\_______/\_______|\___|---/   _\   \\_______|\___|\_______|-- - -
          -------  -------  ---   /____\_____\-------  ---  -------
                                  ------------

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BonerBoy



lt

Registered: 2006-02-22
Messages: 78
Status: Offline
 _#36161 posted 2018-09-24 @ 09:17 GMT   
team xecuter announcements are dishonest with bullshit claims, what else is new? ... maybe switch is better, not the same team who released the xbox mod-chips....
      )
     (
      )
  _.-~(~-.
 (@\`---'/.             Tea,     
('  `._.'  `)             anyone?
 `-..___..-' 

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garyopa



lt

Registered: 2003-11-06
From: Toronto
Messages: 83
Status: Offline
 _#36164 posted 2018-09-27 @ 04:06 GMT   
The misinformation is lies spread by free cfw authors on their discord, they were posting crap about how emunand works and telemetry and all that, within 5 mins after the SX OS release, when it takes min. of at least 20 mins to setup the emunand before you could look at how it works.

#1: -- NANDTotalSize is the only value that nintendo sees in telemetry, and it does not change, unless you physically change the eMMC module itself, the value is read from the nand chip, and no matter what you do with data on it, it will always report back 32gb on Retail and 64gb on devkit, and 128gb on the unreleased Switch Pro (new prototype model)

#2: -- yes, TX emunand is not the normal on 'MicroSD' type that everyone is used to on the 3DS, it could be better called as 'dual-boot' or 'split-os', but then 90% of people would not understand it anyway.

#3: -- Emunand the TX kind, is generated by making 3 '.bin' files in the free space of the USER partition, containing shadow copy of your current sysnand, for full install you need 15gb free, but you can get away of having only around 6gb emunand, 3 to 4gb for system, and another 2gb for save files and other running junk.

#4: -- Since the fake emunand is just '3 files' in user section, nintendo can't detect it as nothing is touch to the normal sysnand, so when you boot up in original firmware, you have basically a clean system, except you have 3 files filling up some of your free space, they could just as easy be pictures or other data, nintendo does not know or care about that, so basically it safe to go online, and play your bought carts and eshop downloads.

#5: -- Since now you have your fake emunand, the main thing that was causing bans, ie. installing nsp's will now all take place on your fake emunand side, you can install as many as you want, and unlike before, none of them will appear on the sysnand side, but everything will be there when you reboot to your emunand side.

#6: -- Now of course, if you turn off stealth mode, and start using your fake emunand online, to update your xci carts. or download dlc for your non-bought nsp installs, then well that's stupid and will still get you banned, nothing you can do about that, except instead of going online, source more warez like game updates and dlc and install them like you did with the rest of your illegal warez, I don't see why people can't understand that simple fact, if you going to be pirate, then be a pirate all the way, don't think you can update or get dlc for your pirated game by going online with it, nothing will prevent you from getting banned, not even a full emunand on microsd, still the same problem.

#7: -- Now why not generate the 32gb emunand on microsd, well for one reason, speed and lag, the Horizon OS is only 200kb in size, it uses the 4gb section of the nand like 'extra ram', its reading and writing thousands of time per second to various chunks, now you move that to microsd, along with having already your xci carts on microsd and your nsp installs on microsd, well good luck, with most microsd's out there, the wear and tear is crazy, bad blocks get marked off as unuseable after 100,000 writes and corruption starts, and system is overall laggy and slow, the switch is slow enough as it already, and you throw slow microsd into it with emunand,xci,nsp on it and wow its like using windows on 286 desktop with no extra ram.

#8: -- sure, there is nice costly high-speed microsd's with better write times, but 90% of users don't own them, and the switch exfat driver itself still not very good, its not multi-threading and buggy, and you still end up with corruption, even when just using the microsd to read a nsp package and install it back will sometimes fuck up still, and that's without any emunand or other redirects taking place.

#9: -- sure, tx news releases are 'little bit over the top with marketing hype', but at same time there is alot of haters on discord servers spreading misinformation also, not understanding how it all works, so don't believe talk about 'nandtotalsize' not being reported the same, and that 'partitions are all changed' and other junk, that is not the case at all.

/SoapBox Rant Over
  ________                         ________    __________    _____     
 /  _____/ _____  _______  ___.__. \_____  \   \______   \  /  _  \    
/   \  ___ \__  \ \_  __ \<   |  |  /   |   \   |     ___/ /  /_\  \   
\    \_\  \ / __ \_|  | \/ \___  | /    |    \  |    |    /    |    \  
 \______  /(____  /|__|    / ____| \_______  //\|____|  /\\____|__  //\
        \/      \/         \/              \/ \/        \/        \/ \/
                                                                       

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modrobert



donor

Registered: 2003-10-17
From: Bangkok
Messages: 6479
Status: Offline
 _#36165 posted 2018-09-27 @ 07:18 GMT   
Thanks for the explanation. Perhaps the only 100% safe solution is to have one hacked Switch, and another one kept clean for online and DLC use?
  _____________________________ ____________     __________________ /\________
  \    __________________      \      _____/____/     _    \       /_        /
 /     /       |       l/     _/    ____)     _/      _     \     \/  cREAM /
/______________l_______/       \______________\_______|      \_   /________/
 -+--Mo!-------------- \________/ ------------------- l_______/_____\ -----+-

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pOOB



private

Registered: 2006-11-09
Messages: 3
Status: Offline
 _#36167 posted 2018-09-27 @ 07:50 GMT   
Seems pretty safe to me if you follow the rules.
If running out of space for legally purchased eshop games, those could be archived and redownloaded to SD card iirc.

Might get SX OS one day, if I played through all the games i bought.

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Sytron



private

Registered: 2005-11-15
Messages: 3
Status: Offline
 _#36168 posted 2018-09-29 @ 04:19 GMT   
Quote:
On 2018-09-27 @ 04:06 GMT, garyopa wrote:
#3: -- Emunand the TX kind, is generated by making 3 '.bin' files in the free space of the USER partition, containing shadow copy of your current sysnand, for full install you need 15gb free, but you can get away of having only around 6gb emunand, 3 to 4gb for system, and another 2gb for save files and other running junk.

#4: -- Since the fake emunand is just '3 files' in user section, nintendo can't detect it as nothing is touch to the normal sysnand, so when you boot up in original firmware, you have basically a clean system, except you have 3 files filling up some of your free space, they could just as easy be pictures or other data, nintendo does not know or care about that, so basically it safe to go online, and play your bought carts and eshop downloads.



Seems necessary to explain the problems here.

Starting with #3; Making 3 ".bin" files and storing them in the user side. That alone sounds like trouble waiting to happen. I'll explain why after we go into

Point #4 It's stored within the storage of the switch, plain and simple. To go on-line you need the latest and greatest firmware.

The whole idea of keeping that data separated is to blatantly hide the shit. You can't find what is not actually there when searching for it. Granted putting it on a removable storage does pose issues. However if it was, take out the card, and all you have to worry about is hiding the entry point usage. Which from what we have seen thus far they can't detect RCM usage (thankfully)

But saying it's "basically safe" to leave "3 .bin files" is just asking for shit to go wrong. Currently they might not be able to identify those files. That can change, and it will. What happens when it does??? More severe full on bans.

Currently the safest method that we know of, is using a clean nand to start with, then updating it after each online usage. It's a bitch but it's the most likely to work.

It's more then apparent that Nintendo is taking a strong stance against Piracy this time around. Hell for all we know a new first party game could hold it's own Trojan horse that will search for these things while your connected and playing online. They have the means to do so and I for one would not put it past them. I've seen it done a number of times before elsewhere. So no it's not "basically safe to go online" because as long as it can be found they will be looking.

I can guarantee that SXOS users are on the radar to take down as those people spent money with them rather than Nintendo. Getting free alternative users is just an added bonus but they were never likely to spend anything with Nintendo anyway.

This will lead to people getting banned because of a false sense of security. My issue is the target audience are people that want an easy plug and play solution. Which is fine, there is nothing wrong with paying for convenience, but they use "basically safe" to misinform people that don't know better and I call bullshit.

This "might be safe" we really don't know until more time and lemmings go off the cliff ahead of us.

TX is a business like any other, and they don't give a shit about the end user just their money. I just want to destroy any misconceptions people could get about what this "emuNAND" is and isn't.

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modrobert



donor

Registered: 2003-10-17
From: Bangkok
Messages: 6479
Status: Offline
 _#36169 posted 2018-09-29 @ 10:37 GMT   
Quote:
On 2018-09-29 @ 04:19 GMT, Sytron wrote:
I can guarantee that SXOS users are on the radar to take down as those people spent money with them rather than Nintendo. Getting free alternative users is just an added bonus but they were never likely to spend anything with Nintendo anyway.



While I agree with your points how Nintendo could easily detect anything on their system, the part about "free" solutions is plain wrong.

From a business point of view, free hacking solutions means a lot more impact in the form of piracy and game cheating on their online services. According to research done by Nintendo during the SNES era piracy using devices (copiers) was roughly 2% of the consoles sold, compare that with 10-15% of consoles after free efforts like letterbomb and How to get started, even if you are really dumb on Wii.
  _____________________________ ____________     __________________ /\________
  \    __________________      \      _____/____/     _    \       /_        /
 /     /       |       l/     _/    ____)     _/      _     \     \/  cREAM /
/______________l_______/       \______________\_______|      \_   /________/
 -+--Mo!-------------- \________/ ------------------- l_______/_____\ -----+-

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